When I started The Posse List™ (7 years ago this summer), there was talk of forming a union or trade association for contract attorneys. A number of DC Posse members and New York Posse members had meetings about two years ago, but the initiative failed. The last few months have seen more discussion but due to lack of time and money efforts again flagged.
I have decided to step up to the plate and bring this to fruition. Over the past several months, I had a number of discussions in Chicago with the ABA and several Chicago, New York and DC law firms and several state bar associations. I retained the Venable Law Firm (my personal attorneys and outside counsel to my company) to discuss the formation of a trade association and they have done the initial formation work for the trade association.
In June 2008, the American Society of Contract Attorneys (ASOCA)™ was formed. We have reserved the URL www.asoca.org and a provisional home page is now up. We have set up this blog where we encourage contract attorneys to chat amongst themselves about ASOCA™ and give us feedback.
The following are actions I have taken to make ASOCA™ a reality:
1. I have retained an executive director to assist in the organization and operation of ASOCA™. I have also hired a web designer and graphic artist who will handle the web site and media material.
2. Certain operations of The Posse List™ such as the Help Desk (which handles all types of questions from Posse members) will be migrated to ASOCA™. I will return the Posse List to its main mission which is to find jobs for contract attorneys and to discuss the contract attorney market. The Research Unit (which tracks projects/litigations on behalf of agencies and does special research projects for law firms) will remain under The Posse List™. The List itself will undergo a major expansion — more on that in a future email.
3. We are filing an application for tax exemption under 501(c)(6) of the Internal Revenue Code. This is the IRS provision specifically reserved to professional and trade organizations and other types of business leagues which are characterized by a common business interest. The organization typically promotes this common business interest and its activities are directed to the improvement of business conditions of one or more lines of business rather than the performance of particular services for individual persons.
4. Our initial goals for ASOCA™ are as follows:
a. To provide training for contract attorneys to improve their skills sets. As an example, we would hold low cost seminars and continuing legal education classes on such topics as: “an introduction to e-discovery”; the concepts of attorney-client privilege; how a privilege log is created; specific training on various document review software (we have already contacted a number of companies who are eager to participate); and backgrounders on such topics as the FCPA. These could be done via the web and live.
b. To offer reduced tuition. For example, we have contacted several universities in the Chicago, DC and NYC metro areas about offering reduced tuition to ASOCA™ members.
c. To provide resources for obtaining permanent employment. These could include a discounted rate to access such sites as lawcrossing.com and bradtraverse.com, an affiliation with a resume preparation company, etc. for ASOCA™ members
d. To provide a fully staffed Help Desk to handle contract attorney questions/needs.
e. To provide resources for freelancers and small law practices. For example, ASOCA™ can affiliate with existing organizations who assist in these areas, and can also provide information and assistance.
f. To provide access to financial counseling. We have spoken with several banks regarding provision of free and low cost financial counseling advice and low-cost student loan consolidation for ASOCA™ members.
g. To provide access to insurance. We have spoken with a number of insurance companies and insurance brokers regarding obtaining group health/medical insurance and life insurance for ASOCA™ members.
5. At this point I am using my own funds to provide the initial operational funding to launch ASOCA™. Later this year, we intend to charge a nominal membership fee to fund ASOCA’s operating costs.
There are enormous logistical issues in such an enterprise, as well as substantive issues, all of which we are working to address. But the principal issue is how to appropriately advance the interests of our members.
To do so, we need your input. We’ve set up this blog where we hope you will discuss the goals and services you would like ASOCA™ to provide, to further sharpen the mission and goals of the association. You can click the “Comment” box below and leave a comment for us and your fellow contract attorneys. Or if you want to email us a private message, go the ”Links” box on the above right-side of this page and you can click on the link to our web site and leave us a message via our ”Contact” page.
We will keep you abreast of our progress via this blog. We have enlisted the help of several contract attorneys in this effort. But we also want you to join our Membership mailing list so you are aware of ASOCA™ activities and receive our newsletters. Please register by going to our registration page: http://asoca.org/mailman/listinfo
All the best,
Gregory Bufithis
Chairman of the Board
ASOCA™
July 15, 2008 at 1:29 pm |
I sincerely appreciate what you are doing for us. I can well imagine it’s a logistical challenge. I have submitted my email to be a member. I’ll gladly pay dues. Kudos to you guys!!
July 15, 2008 at 8:00 pm |
Finally. a voice for our kind! I’ve been a Posse member for years and I owe you a lot for all of the jobs I’ve gotten during that time with your emails. It’s good to know that we might at long last have an organization with some staying power. Job search tools and discounts on resume writing services? Sign me up! I think it says a lot that you’re not collecting dues right away. Best of luck with this and keep me posted!
July 15, 2008 at 8:45 pm |
This is great. I can’t believe this is finally happening!
July 16, 2008 at 10:36 am |
Sincerely appreciate what you are doing. I hope this thing gets traction because it will help all of us. It’s a better idea than a union which I can well imagine is fraught with difficulties.
July 28, 2008 at 2:25 pm |
Fantastic! An idea whose time has finally come.
July 28, 2008 at 2:28 pm |
About bloody time !!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks.
July 28, 2008 at 2:31 pm |
This is a wonderful idea! I have been contracting since Oct. 2005 and feel like I am definitely a part of a professional “community.” Contractors provide a valuable service for firms and clients (and agencies, too) and we deserve a voice. We also deserve assistance with project prospecting, health insurance, affordable CLE, etc. I look forward to seeing this project blossom!
July 28, 2008 at 2:39 pm |
A very big congratulations to starting the inevitable. My two cents: keep the work in the U.S.
July 28, 2008 at 2:41 pm |
Work on the health care stuff, please. Like insurance that doesn’t expire when the project does.
July 28, 2008 at 2:42 pm |
Wow. On your dime? Cool. Obviously you don’t do contract work anymore!!
July 28, 2008 at 3:11 pm |
Pretty ambitious program but it looks well thought out. I agree with Anthony098: insurance.
July 28, 2008 at 3:24 pm |
I like the fact you seem to be trying to professionalize us. Good move. Danke!
July 28, 2008 at 4:02 pm |
I’d like more info on the research unit.
July 28, 2008 at 4:07 pm |
We encourage you to join ASOCA via membership list at: http://asoca.org/mailman/listinfo
July 28, 2008 at 4:29 pm |
Ok, trade association doable. Union would have been stupid I think. Fraught with difficulty. But I think we still need to send you guys a laundry list of issues we all have.
July 28, 2008 at 4:34 pm |
We are getting lots of emails via our web site so we’d like to address a few points raised in those emails. Too many contract attorneys who feel they are poorly treated and poorly paid will see this as a union. A union it will not be. As we learned in our series of conversations with lawyers, trade groups, bar associations, etc. the creation of a union is “fraught with difficulties” as Anon_1 says above, and impossibilities. But we believe if we can launch this trade association and accomplish the tasks outlined above it will be a major contribution. And if from that we can gain “street cred” so that we can act for/speak for contract attorneys, the better.
July 28, 2008 at 4:39 pm |
Thanks so much for this and the Posse list! I would love to see this association help set a higher market rate and possible help set more standard “benefits” (transportation reimbursement, etc). I think it would be wonderful if law firms, state bars, etc. would realize some of us CHOOSE to do this type of work and treat KAs with more respect. Keep up the great work!
July 28, 2008 at 5:21 pm |
I think your goal of getting some kind of health/insurance set up for us is
great. I wonder if there is a way to create a 401k plan that all the
agencies could use?
July 28, 2008 at 6:05 pm |
Okay….some thoughts as you guys want to get as many ideas as possible: financial planners; disability insurance; computer literacy training (multiple levels–a ton of CAs need refreashers, tired of teaching them); 401(k); push for “independant contractor status” (1099 pay); CLE’s geared to us and our training; discounts for “PMP certifications”; seminars geared to our needs (student loans, buying a home w/ our income bkgd, etc.); and last but not least…..rejuvenating our legal career if we do wish to go back into firm/govt life as practicing attorneys—-proactively promoting us in a good light to the legal community (giving us a face and a voice.)
July 28, 2008 at 6:15 pm |
BTW–great idea. Let me know when it is time for the dues, think I’d get more out of this than the ABA membership I’ve been pouring annual $$ into the last few years.
July 28, 2008 at 6:29 pm |
A great idea and far preferable to a union!
One suggestion (now that there’s someone to listen)–how about working with the “agencies” to come up with a SINGLE SET of “registration” docs (electronically completable) and “conflict” forms that they all will accept, so we don’t waste our time filling out dozens of different ones, each a freakin’ mess. It’s what got the National Assoc. of “Realtors” (they made up the name) going — standardized forms that everyone can use. For the realtors, everyone stopped feeling like they need a lawyer to make a million dollar purchase, so who knows?–maybe this would be the first step toward law firms figuring out they don’t really need an “agency” to get to us! :}
July 28, 2008 at 7:48 pm |
KUDOS to your very ambitious and much appreciated undertaking on our behalf. I am curious as to why you opted for the trade association route as opposed to a union and whether a union of contract attorneys would conflict with or undermine the trade association?
July 29, 2008 at 5:48 am |
Greetings from Europe!! Your EU Posse members are esctatic about this … but not too eager to get back and join!! Lots of work over here. How about a London chapter
July 29, 2008 at 8:07 am |
This is a very promising event. I agree with ICM that the test of our associating will be the bottom line: can we leverage our concerted action to improve hourly rates and obtain basic expense reimbursements (meal delivery, Metro fares, Metro parking, dry cleaning), plus fitness club memberships, subsidized interest rates on credit cards, just like real associates. And thanks to Greg for the link to join ASOCA, http://asoca.org/mailman/listinfo.
July 29, 2008 at 8:08 am |
The blog time stamp is U.S. Central Time, because I am posting this at 9:08 AM EDT.
July 29, 2008 at 1:13 pm |
Finally something is happening!! We need help with health, dental, vision, long and short term disability, life insurance and also with retirement savings that all lapse at the end of each project if its even offered. Also not being treated like a commodity, being recognized as the attorneys that we are, and earning what we are actually worth. Having good work conditions – proper workstation setup and not being squeeezed on top of one another. Not having outrageous, perhaps unethical speed demands placed on us. Above all help in getting out of the temp/contract world if that is of course what we want. I have lately been wondering whether I want to be an attorney at all because of things I have experienced, but I now have at least a glimmer of hope. Also making clients and/or agencies actually enforce harassment and discrimination policies would be welcome.
July 30, 2008 at 7:15 am |
I’d like to see training sessions provided. I’d like to see lots of resources on your resource page.
July 30, 2008 at 7:18 am |
Man, if you can offer some career/training guidance that would be best. I know the CA lifestyle works for a lot of people but not me. But it does pay for these horrendous student loans. Need more big hour projects!!!!!!!
July 30, 2008 at 12:33 pm |
Thank you, Gregory, for taking such a considerable step in the right direction. I’ll pay my dues GLADLY when the time comes.
I see by some of the comments here that CAs unrealistically hope that ASOCA will move heaven and earth, but I encourage you to focus on small victories first: little things to firms that make a big difference to us, stuff like removing law firm policies that prohibit firm attorneys from writing/giving contract attorneys oral/letters of recommendation for their work.
July 30, 2008 at 2:07 pm |
Glad to see this – happy to pay dues to this as oppossed to ABA which isn’t really helping me. As mentioned by a lot of people, I would prefer to get ins through trade assoc instead of agency, also:
- info on training on different software/review programs required for different projects
-info on working as 1099/freelance vs. through an agency
- info on potential pitfalls of contract work, ie how not conflict yourself out of future employment
-heads up on any possible tax benefits/loopholes
-how to gain legal skills, ie through solo practice/volunteer work while doing doc review
-clearinghouse for info on how to deal with student loan repayment
-info about waiving into other bars, ie which jurisdictions count doc review as “practicing law” and which don’t
-clarification of what our labor rights are as contactors, ie when is overtime pay required, at what point does contractor status end and you become defacto employee of firm no matter what your title is, how to avoid getting screwed by agencies, ie the poor guy whose family got shut out of his life ins benefits b/c of technicality
-also, potential to serve as lobbying bloc- ie a lot of work is being outsourced- is any of it related to topics that aren’t supposed to be leaving the country due to federal law/national security concerns, does any one police this? or are the agencies/firms supposed to police themselves? I have heard of projects which have applied for waivers- but don’t know specifics of which agency grants them and could trade group serve as moitoring force, can we file requests to review under FOIA, keep as much work as possible in country?
July 31, 2008 at 8:43 am |
Hey, off topic: do you folks think these layoffs will increase the CA ranks and drive down the hourly?
July 31, 2008 at 10:49 am |
Hey, off-topic: are the law firms squashing the agencies? A friend of mine just left an agency and took some RFPs with him. He says law firms are dropping their billable rate (what they will pay the agency? is that right term?) by $10 an hour. I know doc reviews are moving out of DC to cheaper sites in the U.S. but your thoughts on this lower rate stuff??
July 31, 2008 at 5:07 pm |
The formation of ASOCA is a watershed event in American law. Your work, Mr. Greg Bufithis, in creating both ASOCA and The Posse List, has been nothing short of heroic. Well done! And may I express sincere gratitude for all your work on behalf of American attorneys everywhere. ASOCA may not be, or aspire to become, a union, but nonetheless, United We Stand. Thank-you! –Ward Copernicus
July 31, 2008 at 5:19 pm |
What about advocating for fair wages? Some projects pay exceptionally low rates i.e. $35 flat and $35 plus OT. This rate is from 4 years ago and should not be tolerated. Some NYC bus drivers get paid more than that AND have benefits. Contract attorneys get “raped” by agencies and law firms. I have read numerous articles where firms state that contract attorneys are a “profit center” for the law firm. Why are we allowing law firms to profit so handsomely off of us? Not to mention the agencies. I think pay rates is a HUGE issue that needs to be addressed.
July 31, 2008 at 5:22 pm |
The first thing to do is to make sure that all contract work isn’t outsourced to India. Once that is settled and contract work is just for U.S. based and barred attorneys, then a trade association will have some power to help raise rates and provide health insurance and other protections you’ve talked about.
July 31, 2008 at 10:24 pm |
Okay….what is going on here, only 35 people show interest in the blog??? What more do you want, people?? Guess what, you’ll actually have to do something proactive to protect yourself or improve your career plight….”JOIN YOUR TRADE ASSOCIATION”. Since it only appears we have to sign on in numbers to the blog to show interest and help w/ the formation, not pay cash at this time—what is the big deal? Are you sitting on a project, surrounded by a bunch of people who all looked at the announcement and said….”that will never work, we’ll just wait to see if it succeeds or fails”…..and you went along with all of them and didn’t act? The “herd” mentality. What if that “wait and see” approach comes across as lack of interest and disrupts the formation?? The first and ONLY time there is a legitimate organization/approach to do something like this and you didn’t answer the call to action?? Then you have done a great disservice to yourself. Just once, can we prove that we are more than the accumulated negative opinions/insults say we are….if this ASOCA is a sign of change, maybe it should be accompanied by internal changes in perspective of those who are our peers and ourselves. If you still don’t want to, then just do it for me.:-)
August 7, 2008 at 10:36 pm |
A resounding THANK YOU to Gregory and all those who have helped him launch this tremendous endeavor. I will proudly participate/contribute and recruit others to do so as well.
September 28, 2008 at 8:51 pm |
I agree with Hlkight said, why do we all have to be heaped on top of each other? We must earn the firm 100 bucks an hour and we all work tons of hours and generate 1000’s of dollars a week. Why do they squeeze 8 of us at a table?
How about giving us each an actual desk with some friggin space? I’ve done the 6-person around a tiny table long enough. We are making the firms(and agencies tons of $) give us a (little) space!